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If this feels familiar, it is

Arjun: It's time to be speaking about yet another inflection point - Aviation

2025 started with the highest number of aviation incidents that made everybody wonder how safe is it really to fly? And it's ending with a different kind of incident where everybody wants to fly, but there's a specific airline in India that won't let you.

We thought, we'll close 2025 by doing a throwback to three years ago. What you're about to hear is our first episode on Innocence Theory podcast, where Dinesh was trying to get to Pune from Bangalore for a recording session. Unfortunately, he had last minute cancellations. There was no grievance process. And clueless airport stuff.

Just for perspective. In the last three years of artificial intelligence, we have AI that can create poetry, create music videos, create movies, and yet. The most advanced thing that you can get from a customer service is - we have operational difficulties.

We often confuse inconvenience with injustice, but when it turns out to be a system feature and not just an exception. It makes us think - when systems are under stress, does it absorb the stress or does it transfer it especially to end customers?

After all, it's not personal, it's just business.

This is a throwback We are handing over to 2022 now. This is not about flying. This is about broken links , about operational difficulties.

Listen to what still feels familiar, how you show up to a flight, and how furious would you still be for a cancelled flight. But before we can get into the episode, we'd like to thank you for being with us. We wish you a great 2026. We will be back next year, and if you're listening, it's going to be a great year to ask better questions.

And now back to 2022. 

Customer care?

Arjun: How's your journey? 

Dinesh: It's, uh, it's, it's a very mixed bag. So I had a flight booked for, from, from Bangalore to Pune at, at, uh, early in the morning, like at two 30. So I get a message from Indigo at nine 30. Yeah. That's about like right four, four to five hours before that my flight is canceled and I get this through a message and they, they've given a link in the message saying that you can go to that link and you can, uh, reschedule your flight or you can cancel the flight and we will refund you.

Right? Sounded quite straightforward. So I tried to, uh, so I clicked on that link and it didn't take me anywhere. 

Arjun: Just, just like a flight. 

Dinesh: Yeah. So I, I think it was metaphorical of them to give these, send a link that does not take you where you want to go. So I try to access the Indigo app and again, there.

Uh, I couldn't load the page where I can reschedule. Then I tried opening it in there, uh, with Trusted Desktop and figure this thing out, right? And it didn't work there as well. But the one thing is they had, all of them had the same error. I'm trying to figure my way out across the night. I couldn't reschedule my flight through any of these, uh, these an online platforms.

And so I decided to call them. Oh, it, I waited for 20 minutes. Important to 

Arjun: us,

Dinesh: some shitty as music with some, I don't know how low quality music that thing is, is just kept playing for such a long time. Then like 20 minutes later, one guy like answered, you know, sometimes when you reach a customer care. And when you speak to that person, you realize that that guy is new. Yeah. You kind of get a quick sense of it, right?

Yeah. Um, 

Arjun: so it's not that the issue is new. You found that he hit himself was new. The guy was new. The new job, yeah. 

Dinesh: So he was assuring me without really meaning it. Right. So, but anyway, uh, I just gave the benefit of doubt, and at this point of time, I, I, I am like powerless. I'm just clinging onto whatever hope I have after like, putting me on hold a couple of times and all of that.

Okay. Uh, he said he'll get back to me in 10 minutes. Then I asked him like, what if you don't get back to me, what do I do? Then I, like, I, I could actually feel how a powerless person feels like, you know? Then he said like, he assured me. Then I kind of also felt, okay, maybe he's new to the job and maybe there is a little bit of Josh, and so he called me back and I was like, okay, fine.

And he didn't. I think there is a bit of peace that comes along with being powerless. 

Arjun: Oh yeah. Responsibility is not yours. No. Yeah. 

Dinesh: You 

Arjun: can't 

Dinesh: do more than this. So these guys have never bothered to call me back like you, we canceled your flight and no, nothing. We just sent off a message and you'll have to figure it out.

And that message has some links That doesn't work. And the customer care is very difficult to reach. And if you reached, you get an uh, newbie who assures you that he'll call you back and he doesn't. Shall I make one more attempt?

I think this is just my optimism kicking in by then. So I make one more attempt and this time a lady picks up, so somehow she manages to book me a flight at two 30 in the afternoon. Okay.

So how do I approach this now? I, I was like furious a little bit, um, angry, you know, like being wronged. Uh, you get this feel of feeling of taken for granted and all of that. Then I just. Uh, sat down and thought about a little bit. Okay. Aviation as an industry has a lot of logistics to it, right? 

Arjun: That did tell you powerless.

You as a, you wanted to travel the aviation industry. Radios travel time by so much. That should be as a gift to you. And if you are feeling entitled that they cannot take off a flight at the set time that they have set. It is bad service. But ultimately you are still flying out. No. 

Dinesh: Yeah, I'm like flying, man.

You're flying. 

Arjun: I can't be pissed about not being 

Dinesh: able to fly. 

Arjun: Correct. At a time of your choice. 

Dinesh: Yeah, at a time of my choice, so, so I thought like, you know what? I'm going to be curious and I'm going to give a genuine chance to understand what went wrong. Like any of these changes, which happened at the last moment.

Involves a lot of cascading changes that need to happen on the digital front. There's a decision that is made, right? Yeah. That this flight is getting canceled and so many passengers have to be rescheduled in other flights, and a predominant amount of this work has to be done. In the digital space. I mean it, it all has to happen.

So I decided that I am going to go with like a curious mindset, which means that I had to like let go of the bitterness or anger from the previous night, that whole sleepless night and mistreatment, and the feeling of powerless and all of that, you know, I'm gonna make an attempt to understand. What the challenge was, so I decided to go a little early.

Hmm. And I get a message saying my flight is delayed.

Lets try curiosity, not rage

Dinesh: So I reached the airport, uh, across the first level of security. And I'm looking for the indigo counter. Now at this point, I'm furious already. Again, you need to like ground yourself to understand the larger LA logistics of aviation. So that was like really testing, you know, like, and, and I also, uh, had this, uh, you know, and at that point of time is when I had this idea that.

Curiosity is something which is difficult to practice. It involves effort. 

Arjun: It, it requires the, I'm gonna switch off what I know now. Let's find something new that is an effort. 

Dinesh: And for you to be in that mental space itself is, uh, you, you need to prep, prep yourself for it, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, so me getting angry at this point is, um.

Futile. And even probably it could be detrimental to myself. 

Arjun: So when you're helpless, even if you try to act on it, if the response you get is also helpless. 

Dinesh: Yeah. So it's like that's what identifying the right tree to bark is. It's probably the first part of your game. Hmm. So. I didn't bark, so I went to, uh, print the baggage sticker.

So I go and try to print this, uh, baggage tag and, uh, my barcode, I'm scanning that doesn't, is not working because that's not the barcode of, of the boarding pass. That's the barcode of the ticket, which is different, and I don't have the boarding pass. Because the flight got delayed. So the, she said she checked in, but she actually, I don't know whether she actually checked in or not.

Arjun: She didn't send you the boarding pass. 

Dinesh: She didn't send me the boarding pass. No, I don't have the boarding pass, but I don't even realize this. So I, I ask her to like, you know, my, I'm not able to print the tag. And she comes and she's like, you know. You need to print the boarding pass by now, I'm like, no. I need to explain to her now, like, ma'am, I've had like a bad experience so far, so it would be of help if you let me go and drop this bag.

Then she's like, okay, got it. Uh, then she quickly understood. What I kind of realized is when you understand that people don't know what exactly you're feeling and you give them that benefit of doubt, and you kind of, uh, want them, uh, that you know you have gone through this, uh, then they, then suddenly they become mindful.

Arjun: Right? 

Dinesh: At least the reasonable ones. So then I told her like. You know what? I've had some bad experience. Now I want to speak to someone, um, about it. Who's the right person to address to? So I was identifying the tree.

So then, uh, they pointed, uh, she pointed me to a lady who was standing out there. So I went and I spoke to her. So I told her, uh, with the, with the right mindset that I had like. My, uh, this was my flight was originally at this point of, at, uh, two 30 in the night, but then got canceled. And with that curious note, um, there was a bit of, um, casualness in her response.

You know what? Yeah, that's okay. So you got a ticket, right. And, you know, um, then I realized, okay, you need to be a little scenic for them to take it seriously.

Arjun: Dramatic.

Dinesh: Yeah. Dramatic. So then I kind of, uh, also, you know, made it sound like, um, like I asked her like, okay, so is you, you're saying that you're taking the feedback and you know you'll address it, but what's the escalation metrics?

Who are you going to speak to and how, why should I just take your word for it? Hmm. And that's when she realized that, okay, she is not, uh, maybe we need to address this with, uh, with the time. Um, yeah. So then, then I again got back to my normal self as understanding like, you know what, I understand there's so many challenges, but what does it, why was the flight canceled?

Then she said, uh, what was the term that you used earlier? Operational issues, operational issues because of operational issues. I'm like, okay, what operational issue? Then she was like, sir, there are many operational issues. So like weather is bad condition, flight aircraft is, uh, sometimes in, uh, not in flyable condition and stuff like that.

Arjun: It's, um, yeah, but I want Which one? Which one? 

Dinesh: Yeah, I asked, I exactly asked the, asked that. Yeah. But in this case, what was it?

For which she, for which she said that she wa she's not, she won't be aware of that. 

Arjun: Mm-hmm. 

Dinesh: And, um, then, but she was apologizing. Then I asked her like, why are you apologizing? You, you, you are not responsible for it. Why should you feel sorry about it? Um. So then I, then I explained to her that how my digital platform was not working at all and I couldn't make, uh, I couldn't reschedule.

Oh, by the way, in their website for this kind of, uh, issue, they have a section. Okay. So that kind of says about it, right? That means it's frequent. Maybe it's because of the COVID also. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that, uh, and you know, you know, what's that section called? 

Arjun: Grievances? 

Dinesh: That section is called Plan B. 

Arjun: Are you serious?

Dinesh: Yeah. 

Arjun: But they didn't make you go to plan B. I mean, you, you never didn't have a plan B. Yeah. You, 

Dinesh: I. So the, the Plan B is made by them. Correct. So you have plan A and they have a plan B for you, and the section is called Plan B. But the problem is sometimes you can't even plan in that plan B. Okay. So how many passengers are there, like around 180 passengers in a flight, right?

Mm-hmm. So how did these guys rebook the ticket? Hmm. Most of them will be, will be booking, doing it through digital platform. People land up there. Yes, of of course. But the way it was described, right, she said like, how people stand over there. People stand, stand over there and people stand over there and get their tickets changed and you know, do all I kind of understood in a way, the chaos it brings.

When a ticket is canceled and these people are probably, um, uh, faced that many times and they've kind of become numb to it. Yeah, right. One passenger, 

Arjun: imagine in a hospital you have an emergency ward, somebody working there. It is. It's a regular day shift job. Right. They must like, they're like quite numb to it.

You, you're right. 

Dinesh: Mm-hmm. Till, uh, the conversation was. A little more personal in the sense, um, she was more natural in saying what the problem was and how much she's aware and what it is. I could have a peaceful experience with the situation. 

Arjun: Hmm. 

Dinesh: I okay. I wouldn't say peaceful. That's a stretch. 

Arjun: You're able to reason with her.

Dinesh: I was able to reason with the context. 

Arjun: Hmm. 

Dinesh: It's aviation. You're like you are flying. Yeah. Which as a species, 

Arjun: relatively new to us. Relatively new. So don't be entitled.

Reflections and takeaways

Arjun: So that was your journey. 

Dinesh: Yeah, that was my journey. 

Arjun: Three takeaways from this. 

Dinesh: Hmm. One would be if you kind of realize that your experience is going to be poor, um, maybe if you approach it with a bit of curiosity, uh, it might not help.

Um, I think if you approach it with a bit of. Genuine curiosity. It'll be challenging, but uh, you can make that experience a little different. Hmm. That's one. The second is, um, if, if we are mindful about, um, how unaware the other person is going to be about your context. Um, and if you could articulate your state of mind in some way so that you give them the, a chance to respond appropriately, uh, that would probably address some amount of your challenges across your poor experience time.

And probably the third would be to be a little prepared. Uh, for this, uh, substandard experience. 

Arjun: Mm. 

Dinesh: In terms of time, in terms of, uh, so things are going to not be great there. Maybe you give yourself more time, maybe reach there early, have certain of your, uh, documents in place or certain check-in issues.

Uh. Your bags are packed in the right way and I don't know, there are other things that you could do apart from what this globe is happening. Right. So see if you can fix some of those or um, make them more effective. 

Arjun: Yeah. Alright. That's an experience. 

Dinesh: Yep. 

Arjun: That, that's a curious experience. 

Dinesh: It's a curious experience.

Arjun: Cool. 

Dinesh: So we've landed this plane successfully. You've landed 

Arjun: this plane successfully. That's true.